Hatz Biplane Association

Has anybody here tried to get a deposit back from Rotec? I put a deposit down several years ago and at the time they said it was fully refundable any time and would be held in trust. Now they're saying they spent it and I can't have it back.

Has this happened to anyone else?

From their website:

6.6. Refunds

Rotec do not offer refunds on Products or deposits, whether Product is returned in new, near new or used condition. Rotec offer technical support to Clients with technical issues.


I don't know how long it has been worded like that.

Steve

I didn't have a problem ultimately. My issue was with Paul's wife (at the time)... I understand they are no longer together and she is no longer with the company...

Backstory:
I put a deposit down back in 2010 which at the time I was told would lock in my engine price ($21k) until I paid for it. Fast forward to early-2017 and I started working with them to get my engine done and was dealing with Paul's wife and she said that the price wasn't locked. I started a back and forth about what Paul assured my of, in person at OSH. Then things went quiet for a bit and someone else stepped in to work with me. Quickly things got sorted out and Paul was more than willing to honor my original pricing. As many of you may know, I had some custom work done my engine. This work added to the cost, but not anything out of line in the grand scheme of things.

So overall I had a good experience, aside from what was probably an internal/relationship issue.

Hello Hatz fellows.
My experience with Rotec Company is not positive, I'm affraid. I don't like when I buy new thing paying full price and after short time (80 hours) I discover they sold me something old and used inside, just painted outside. Threatening is something I don't like also.
I did top overhaul on my R3600 using new parts (mostly not from Rotec) and it runs like a dream now.
In my opinion, the engine itself is extremely good looking unit, fits in the Hatz perfectly, like it was just designed for.
However it has few weak points: materials quality, some systems/parts design, manufacture quality or customer service. Something you would expect to be improved through 20-years long production and over thousand of units sold (according to Rotec).
More details you can find here:
https://youtu.be/LlPtMVijIzs
Best of luck,
Wojtek
HC0164

My experience hasn't been all that smooth, but the engine is pure art. Having said that, art may not keep my plane in the air. When I told Jeff I was going to use the Rotec R3600 he wasn't very supportive. Since I bought my engine many others have pointed out some horror stories that are on the internet. Knowing that, there are lots of airplanes out there that have the Rotec engines. I'm going to use my own experience to judge the engine I bought from Rotec.

A silver lining here is that those of us that follow are learning from those that have gone before. No different from any other component of building a Hatz. The main takeaway regarding the Rotec should be to check the components that have been at issue and make the proper inspections and/or modifications, if any, that will rectify or prevent the issues that have been discovered.

I have debated responding to this post for a time now, and decided to post. All this pertains to the R3600.

I had purchased an R3600 engine from them during the early years of production, around 2005. I learned about the 25 hour inspection of the gearbox, AFTER the engine arrived, not before. I thought that kinda sucked, but I ended up having to sell my project so I never had to deal with it. SInce then, they have introduced a fix I guess to eliminate the problem and resulting inspections.

Years later, I put a deposit on another R3600 around 4 years ago. In conversation with Rotec prior to making the deposit, I understood the deposit to be fully refundable, however I did NOT get anything in writing. After seeing the youtube video of the fellow with all the problems with his engine on the Nieuport 28 and Sopwith Pup, I requested information about the events on the Rotec Forum. I had a deposit on an engine at the time and was very interested in what Rotec found to be the issue (s) with the failures. Like Mr. Wojek, Rotec simply removed my post, and did not answer my questions.

This issue, along with other horror stories I have heard of from some of my other aviation friends, moved me to ask for my deposit back. I was denied the refund. However, Rotec stated they would allow me to receive, free of charge, any product Rotec deals with in lieu of the cash.

TO this day, I have not received what I requested, which was the full engine gauge set. A friend of mine, who DID get in writing that his deposit would be refunded, got the same offer, and received 'some' product. However the product he did receive did not add up to the full deposit. He is still trying to get product from them. We checked into taking legal action, but the cost of such an action would be more than the deposits owed. Having a company out of the United States makes it much more difficult to sue, and more expensive.

I have heard second hand, of engines going back to Rotec for warranty repairs that were not completed. In one case the person placed a piece of paper in the gearbox area prior to sending the engine back for repair, and subsequent engine run. Long story short, the paper was still intact when the person received the engine back from repairs. This would indicate that the engine was not ran after the repair. This was not the first time this particular person requested assistance from Rotec, but after this incident, he sold his project, and gave the purchaser a serviable Lycoming along with the purchase, because of his doubts with the Rotec.

I found Mr. Wojek's YouTube video very interesting. What I gleaned from it , and my person experience was this:

1. Failures appear to be all over the place. There is no 'one' failure, except for repeated gear box troubles. Problems appear to be in the construction of the engine, the parts of the engine, the service and support of the engine. There are reported failures of the TBI that are all over the place. No one thing. Many things.
2. There is no US support. You will pay for shipping, regardless of who is at fault. Something to consider. The one dealer they did have in Florida no longer is doing that from what I have heard.
3. There is evidence of the manufacturer lashing out to customers, instead of taking care of them.
4. The manufacturers location is not conducive to low costs for US customers. Costs for shipping, customer support, or legal action are higher.
5. Manufacturers who delete and fail to address customer concerns and questions, probably will not survive. TIme will tell. Every engine manufacturer has had some troubles at one time or another, but I would think transparency would be key to correcting the issue (s) and surviving in the market. Simply deleting or ignoring issues, or cutting off customers because they do not agree with the OEM is not a solution in the long run.
6. Experimental aviation is just that. Experimental. Buyer beware, operator beware.

I wish everyone success with their engines, but my gut tells me to stay away.