Hatz Biplane Association

Just got a quote from VR3 and ACS. About 8000 for pre cut and coped tubing for all metal structures and sheet pieces. All labeled with corresponding diagrams. ACS quoted 2300 based on the materials list previously posted here by "spliscke".
Any thoughts?
Is the pre cut worth it?
Is the posted materials list an accurate assessment?
The cost of the project is definitely going up.

I thought the price was okay. I got the fuse all made ( tacked) in a couple weeks. The kit quality is excellent!

It's either pay for less time, or pay less and take more time.

I would do it all over again! Huge time saver!

I agree with HC85, I looked at VR3 when I started and at that point there wasn't much info. it is a huge pain to fit all the frame parts, especially the clusters. If I did it again I would probably go with VR3. If it helps, the material list that Scott posted is very close and covers the big ticket items. I was lucky and ordered most of mine when Dillsburg Aero went out of business so I got a big discount. Small sizes that I needed later I got from MacMaster Carr. If the quote includes all the sheet parts then that will save you from needing to find someone to water jet cut your sheet metal parts. That was also a problem for me.

looks like I need to make a trip to Ohio to check it out. Bet its really cold up there.

lol, It's coid one day, 55 the next.

You are welcome to stop in anytime. I have to be in the office on Wednesdays, but am usually home any other day. I live right on the airport at KSCA.

I got an early kit, well the first one I think, from VR3. I started talking to Don of VR3 around 2005 or so. They now also can do the control system and seats. The kits also come with the flat sheet metal parts for the gear attach and cabanes too. I can't say enough about how much fun it was to just jig it up and weld the thing. It goes together like a glove! It makes it so much faster and less messy. Some "purists" looked down their noses at me, but I say work smarter, not harder, ...unless that is what you want to do of course lol!
I have just over five years time in my project, and hope to have it done within two more. My progress blew by some folks who have been working on theirs for longer periods.....just because of that fuse tail and gear kit from VR3. If the wife ever lets me build another plane, I would do it all over again!

My Email is rfs1260@yahoo.com, cell 937-728-1028. I posted where my fuse is at on the Hatz Biplane Facebook page a couple days ago.

Happy Hatzing!

One concern I had was the mention in other threads of discrepancies in the plans. If the fuselage is now in CAD form at VR3, I guess this had to be all addressed to get the joints to match. If so, are there any measurements on the precut fuselage that is different than the plans built. Are there any VR3 Hatzes that are completed enough to verify wings and rigging come out the same? My questions are partly out of ignorance as I have not done a plansbuilt before. While I'm announcing my ignorance, what are the anti torque tubes for in the wing? What torque movement or pivot are they guarding against. Sorry to change subjects.

As far as the VR3 kit and wing rigging goes, you are the one welding the fittings where they go, mine is perfect, or as close to it as possible. I have a friend who purchased a welded assembly from them, and it is perfect as well. The Torque tubes in the wings are to minimize twisting in the area as far as I know. I made mine from 1/2 .035 tubing.

I must re-iterate that those kits are PEFECT man......that thing is almost idiot proof.

I can't spell.....they are PERFECT!

Wile, I am assuming that the Torque tubes you are referring to are actually the compression struts. They keep the leading and trailing spars a fixed distance apart since the ribs aren't designed for that load. There is a small issue with the distance between the center of the spars, it comes out to be about 1/16 of an inch. The issue arrives from using the plans to make a rib fixture. When the plans are printed the dimensions change slightly. If the ribs are made from a pattern using the plans as a base, the spar center distance is off slightly. This will require a minor change to the overall length of the compression struts. If they are already made, VR3, then they might need to be shortened slightly before welding the end parts on. you could also use the plans as a base but set the spar locations on 25" centers in your fixture as I did.
There are indeed a few mistakes on the print but none that I remember affecting the metal parts and if so, you could already remake that part.
I would not be concerned about using the VR3 parts.