Hatz Biplane Association

When I went to Osh last year I got an idea of how to make ribs, and it totally changed my ideas of building (went from kit aspirations to plans... and am loving it). The issue is that I was great with making the ribs, but I have never really thought all that much past the ribs... well the ribs are over half way done, and next I am going to have to make a spar!?!?!??!

And just to let you know... I am quite sure I have been to your webpage, and gone through every picture with a fine tooth comb! But that and you guys are my only help in building this thing... I have got to just take a Saturday and fly out to someone who is in the process of building one and see some of this stuff up close and personal!

OK, a few questions... to start with:

1) I know I can figure out the dimensions I need... but if anyone just happens to know what I need to order from wicks that would be great.
2) hardware... I do OK working with wood, and I eventually plan on doing the welding and metal work once I get to the frame (with much help and .... but I really have no idea how to make most of the metal parts... any suggestions on where to... I really hate to say buy them... but?!?!? This is really my biggest concern at this time... I think I am can make up the rest (but hope you guys can save me a lot of time and effort!
3) cutting the ends... I have a band saw, but can get access to a table saw... but cutting things as long the spars is not going to be easy on either.... I don't know if I can find an arm saw... what has everyone else used?!?!
4) how about the bevel on the top of the spar... it is not an exact bevel at all... if you want to get right down to it is arched (although the curve of the top of the wing is not all that great as to make that big a difference... I think)... What did people use to make the top bevel, and how close was it?
5) Leading edge... how in the world do you glue on that leading edge piece?! The end of the ribs have the slot for something... do you just get a strip of wood, router each side, and place it in there, then glue the next piece on top of that? the leading, and also the training edge to a lesser extent, I am really having some heart palpitations over?!!? I can assure you I will be having the same questions when it comes to sanding the leading edge down... but till then I need to figure out exactly how to build it up! The back is really the same... I saw some used a planer and a 1/4 inch peice glued on... great idea... if you have a planer! We will see... sugestions WELCOME!
5.5) I really do not understand the attatchment of trailing edge... I am not sure what part is cut and slid into what?!
6) The Filler strips (that go on top and bottom of the spars to level them back up with the rib).... what are those... 3/16”X3/4”? This is pretty close to what it should be, but I can’t find an area exactly.


Thanks everyone, Please tell me there are others out there who have had zero exprence building a plane, and had no other Hatz builder within a few hundred miles, and still managed to figure it out!?!? I mean I live an hour north of TX, surely there is someone areound here I can go look at some thing?!!? Maybe I will just see if I can’t fly down to Makelan and see what they can show me there... I assume they have some in various stages of builing around there... don’t they?!?

Thanks,
Tre’

Tre’

Let me first start by stating that I have never built a plane either and I find this project to be quite challenging. I have been surprised to discover that the plans which have been around for quite awhile have not been corrected. This website and all the others that post here have been an invaluable resource.
1) I will try and find my Wicks receipt and post it.
2) I downloaded DraftSight and redrew the parts saving them to a dwg format. I then sent them to a water jet capable machine shop. The parts, drawn by others, are now posted on this site and you can load them into DraftSight.
3) I cut the ends of my spars on a Ryobi chop saw.
4) I cut the bevel on an old table that my father in law gave me. I got a roller support from Harbor Freight for each end to support the wood. I played around with some scraps first and spent a lot of time worrying. I have never been a “wood guy” and I really didn’t want to turn my spars into scrap. In the end it was easier than I thought; my biggest problem was the taper at the end. I couldn’t come up with a way to guide it through the table saw. In the end I drew a line and fed it through by hand. I played with different angles on my saw and trial fit it into a rib before I cut the spars. I did not trust the plans or the degree setting on my saw.
5) I did not make the leading edge that is shown on the plans. I have some pictures on my site but I am not the only one that did not follow the plans for the leading edge. I am very happy with the leading edge. I sanded the leading edge with an 8” disc sander.
6) I made the filler strips from ½ inch pine that I cut on the table saw and then planed down.

I have never even seen another Hatz so you are not alone in your building effort. I am about 5 minutes from N57 in Pennsylvania if you ever get in the area and want to stop by.

http://edwinwhite.com/hatz.html

That is the exact answer I was hoping for... thank you. I moved from Philly 2 years ago... which I could have started it then... but school kept me busy enough!

I have not seen your page before... I thought I had about every Hatz builders page out there... guess not! I know I have seen some of the pics, but I guess they were referenced from elsewhere.

I think I will need to see if I can't find someone with a table saw (at the least) to borrow... it is just a few cuts, and should not take too long... it isn't like I am going to be spending 50 hours making those few cuts!

I am going to have to look around the site and find where the parts are in DraftSight... If I can get the metal cut out I think I can make all if not most of the parts. I did notice you even did you powercoating at home?!!? Care of share some of how? Where you got stuff for it? I have never even considered doing something like power-coating... but your setup looks simple enough.

Also, did you start your center section before you started your upper wings? Looks that way, I haven't even looked at those plans really.

Thanks... more to learn! But I it if fun!

Tre'

Tre'
This is the wood that I ordered from Wicks for the spars:
(4) 3/4 x 5 x 132
(4) 3/4 x 3 3/4 x 132
(2) 1/2 x 3 3/4 x 121

The center section spars I got locally.

The last one was for the aileron spars and I cut each one in half to make 4 total.
I ordered them each a little long and I cut a piece off to practice fitting the ribs.

I have the DraftSight files that I used to get my parts waterjet cut. If you send me a private message with your email I will zip them up and send them to you. I must state that I have finished the center section, both top wings and most of a bottom wing. So far I am happy with all the parts but it is far from complete. Most of the bolt holes in my parts were under sized so that I could drill and ream them to size. I wasn't sure how good the water jet would be.

I did the center section first since it seemed to have all the skills in a small assembly. I also finished it before I ordered the spars. I was worried that I might not have the skills and I didn't want to get in to deep. I was very happy with the way it turned out and if I had to do it again I would do the center section first.

I bought a powder coating kit from Harbor Freight and for me it is the way to go. I would like to be able to epoxy paint the wing fittings but so much time elapses between parts that I was really worried about the mess painting would make. I was also concerned about the amount of paint I would need to mix compared to what I would use and the cleanup. Powder coating seems to be the perfect solution. It is very durable, easy to apply, quick to clean up and can be done when the garage is below freezing. I bought a 1500 watt heat lamp on eBay for the compression struts and that works well for the compression struts with the toaster oven for small parts.
I have access to a sand blaster at work and I sand blase each part before I powder coat it, I am worried that powder coating has no anti corrosion properties. I am not sure if I really need to worry about this but I do it anyway.

I have made a few mistakes along the way but so far nothing major, It has been fun and challenging.

-Ed